I’m taking my last class before I graduate from an Ivy League University with my Master’s in Psychological Counseling. And you know what’s ironic? Right now I’m failing the class because I don’t “talk enough”.
That’s right.
I was asked to stay after class last night to talk with the professor and TA. They handed me a legal size envelope with two pages written out detailing my performance in the class.
They explained that my journals are “above average”, which, Thank God, because my last journal received a grade of 3- the highest possible score. In the small group I’ve been asking questions and making comments. My participation is not a problem. It’s the large group discussion where I’m struggling.
My participation in the large group is “generally passive” and my contributions “involve personal constructions or idiosyncratic interpretations of the material, rather than demonstrating a developing competency based on readings, skill development and self-awareness”. Apparently my “inactivity” is making it difficult for them to gauge my “level of competency” and “skill development”. I think it’s crap.
When it was time for me to make my case I explained that I have always had difficulty talking in large groups. I am intimidated. It’s my nature as an introvert to remain in the background and listen while others speak. It’s not that I’m disinterested in the material (like they thought), it’s that I’m just a quiet person.
The professor and TA said they understood where I was coming from, but if my performance didn’t change I would certainly fail the course. Actually, they gave me the option to drop out. I said no. If I don’t pass this class this semester I won’t graduate in May. That’s not an option.
It’s not that I don’t understand the material or engage in class, I can do it in the small group; it’s the large group that is intimidating and I feel more comfortable listening.
The professor mentioned that maybe I should come to class with a list of topics I can talk about. I’ll try it. He said he believes I can improve my grade, I just need to participate more. Just talk, he said. Easier said than done, I thought.
Maybe you blogfriends can help me. Have you ever been told you need to talk more in class? Has this ever been a problem for you? How did you overcome it?
ashleyasaurora.wordpress.com 
Um, that’s crap. I think if you are displaying competency in the ways you are comfortable communicating that should speak for itself. Your professor fails.
But, you gotta do what you gotta do to get out of there. I say try the list thing, I am not very good at speaking up in large groups either so I don’t really have any good advice for you there. Plus, I’ve never been told that I had to in order to pass a class or something…
You can do it, good luck!
Um, that’s crap. I think if you are displaying competency in the ways you are comfortable communicating that should speak for itself. Your professor fails.
But, you gotta do what you gotta do to get out of there. I say try the list thing, I am not very good at speaking up in large groups either so I don’t really have any good advice for you there. Plus, I’ve never been told that I had to in order to pass a class or something…
You can do it, good luck!
Eww that’s so rude! How can they try to fail you if they say you’re doing well in so many other parts of the class.
My advice- try to make at least 2 comments every class. I came up with that idea back in high school and have been trying it ever since. Don’t stress out about having to talk for the entire class period. Just say a few things, and hopefully you’ll be good!
Hope this helps!
Eww that’s so rude! How can they try to fail you if they say you’re doing well in so many other parts of the class.
My advice- try to make at least 2 comments every class. I came up with that idea back in high school and have been trying it ever since. Don’t stress out about having to talk for the entire class period. Just say a few things, and hopefully you’ll be good!
Hope this helps!
I can’t stand teachers who grade based on speaking in class. My government teacher and a few others have tried to pull that same crap on me even though I had excellent grades in the class, so it was obvious I understood the material being covered. I told them I wasn’t going to participate based on speaking in class especially because of my anxiety- I’d end up making an ass out of myself. And they never DID penalize me for it. So apparently it was just bullshit. I wonder if your teachers would still grade as stupidly if you just happened to have a stutter or some other speech impediment.
I can’t stand teachers who grade based on speaking in class. My government teacher and a few others have tried to pull that same crap on me even though I had excellent grades in the class, so it was obvious I understood the material being covered. I told them I wasn’t going to participate based on speaking in class especially because of my anxiety- I’d end up making an ass out of myself. And they never DID penalize me for it. So apparently it was just bullshit. I wonder if your teachers would still grade as stupidly if you just happened to have a stutter or some other speech impediment.
Ugh. How crazy!
I can’t really help you – talking in class has never really been a problem for me most of the time. There are a few classes where I’d be intimidated and afraid I didn’t REALLY understand the readings and such. So in those classes, I’d stay quiet.
I can’t imagine failing a class for that though! Hopefully you’ll get some better advice… 🙂
Ugh. How crazy!
I can’t really help you – talking in class has never really been a problem for me most of the time. There are a few classes where I’d be intimidated and afraid I didn’t REALLY understand the readings and such. So in those classes, I’d stay quiet.
I can’t imagine failing a class for that though! Hopefully you’ll get some better advice… 🙂
Okay, so I think that is a load of crap as well.
Okay, so I think that is a load of crap as well.
Dangit, I pressed the wrong button before typing all of my comment!
Create a list of topics that you feel comfortable talking about & talk their freakin ear off! Just think of talking to a large group of people like talking to a friend. I get nervous every now and again when I have to speak to a large group of people, but I just think of them as friends & they're no longer intimidating.
Dangit, I pressed the wrong button before typing all of my comment!
Create a list of topics that you feel comfortable talking about & talk their freakin ear off! Just think of talking to a large group of people like talking to a friend. I get nervous every now and again when I have to speak to a large group of people, but I just think of them as friends & they're no longer intimidating.
While I don’t agree with the professor, you have to play his game. I was going to suggest the 2 comment thing too, but I’ll add to it, “Ask a question.”
Find something to ask that’s relevant to the topic and shows that you understand the material but want to know more. (Even if you don’t particularly care that much…)
Good luck!
While I don’t agree with the professor, you have to play his game. I was going to suggest the 2 comment thing too, but I’ll add to it, “Ask a question.”
Find something to ask that’s relevant to the topic and shows that you understand the material but want to know more. (Even if you don’t particularly care that much…)
Good luck!
I think that is a big ol’ bucket of crap. Some people just aren’t large crowd kind of people. I’m one of them. Just because you don’t speak up doesn’t mean that you aren’t interested. Can you talk to your advisor about it and appeal their decision? I cannot believe that they even suggested you drop out.
Just try to focus on one person in your large group and put on “blinders” so to speak and trick your mind into thinking that you are only talking to them one on one. Good luck Ashley! I know you can do this! Prove those assholes wrong!
I think that is a big ol’ bucket of crap. Some people just aren’t large crowd kind of people. I’m one of them. Just because you don’t speak up doesn’t mean that you aren’t interested. Can you talk to your advisor about it and appeal their decision? I cannot believe that they even suggested you drop out.
Just try to focus on one person in your large group and put on “blinders” so to speak and trick your mind into thinking that you are only talking to them one on one. Good luck Ashley! I know you can do this! Prove those assholes wrong!
I can’t believe you’d be in danger of FAILING for this, especially since your work is otherwise strong. How frustrating!
I used to get that ALL the TIME in school, those comments of “we wish you’d talk more”; I took an A- in almost every English class I took because of it (I was an English major). “Your papers are great, they’re really good. But participation is a big part of this grade,” they’d tell me. It’s not like I didn’t talk–just not much. I’m not really a class participation person, even when I totally get what’s being discussed.
The sad ending to this story is that I missed graduating with honors by .02. No joke. Oh how I wish I’d listened, and just bucked up in one of those classes–just one! I’d say take some of the advice above and bite the bullet; don’t let your intimidation and non-participatory nature cause you regrets later on (and sorry for such a monstrously long comment…)
I can’t believe you’d be in danger of FAILING for this, especially since your work is otherwise strong. How frustrating!
I used to get that ALL the TIME in school, those comments of “we wish you’d talk more”; I took an A- in almost every English class I took because of it (I was an English major). “Your papers are great, they’re really good. But participation is a big part of this grade,” they’d tell me. It’s not like I didn’t talk–just not much. I’m not really a class participation person, even when I totally get what’s being discussed.
The sad ending to this story is that I missed graduating with honors by .02. No joke. Oh how I wish I’d listened, and just bucked up in one of those classes–just one! I’d say take some of the advice above and bite the bullet; don’t let your intimidation and non-participatory nature cause you regrets later on (and sorry for such a monstrously long comment…)
While I’m not sure it was presented to you in the best way, I have to fall on the professors side. Class participation in those large groups is a way to show you can “think on your feet” and that your grasp of the material is dynamic – ie can keep up with a shifting discussion.
That said, participating in class in graduate school was a huge problem for me – I felt intimidated, I felt as if I didn’t understand the material as well as everyone else did, etc, etc. Second quarter, I just started talking, regardless of whether I was confident in what I was saying.
While I’m not sure it was presented to you in the best way, I have to fall on the professors side. Class participation in those large groups is a way to show you can “think on your feet” and that your grasp of the material is dynamic – ie can keep up with a shifting discussion.
That said, participating in class in graduate school was a huge problem for me – I felt intimidated, I felt as if I didn’t understand the material as well as everyone else did, etc, etc. Second quarter, I just started talking, regardless of whether I was confident in what I was saying.
i agree with the others who said to go to class with a list of things you found interesting from the reading material or questions you had while reading. even if it doesn’t feel relevant, just say it so the professor knows you’re trying. good luck!
i agree with the others who said to go to class with a list of things you found interesting from the reading material or questions you had while reading. even if it doesn’t feel relevant, just say it so the professor knows you’re trying. good luck!
Groups scare the crap out of me. I work much better with smaller groups, and I tend to open up more after I get to know people.
You just need to try. I know it is hard, but you will get the hang out of it after a little while. Just keep thinking about May, graduate in May.
Groups scare the crap out of me. I work much better with smaller groups, and I tend to open up more after I get to know people.
You just need to try. I know it is hard, but you will get the hang out of it after a little while. Just keep thinking about May, graduate in May.
I had the same problem. The bigger the group the quieter I become. Personally, I think its a little unfair that you could fail because of this.
While completing my own masters, I really just did what everyone else suggested. I just started talking.
What I found really helped me was sitting up front. Or as close to the professor as possible as close to some other person in the class who I felt comfortable talking to. That way, I didn’t feel like I had every single pair of eyes on me. And I could almost convince myself that I was only talking to this one other person.
Good luck!
I had the same problem. The bigger the group the quieter I become. Personally, I think its a little unfair that you could fail because of this.
While completing my own masters, I really just did what everyone else suggested. I just started talking.
What I found really helped me was sitting up front. Or as close to the professor as possible as close to some other person in the class who I felt comfortable talking to. That way, I didn’t feel like I had every single pair of eyes on me. And I could almost convince myself that I was only talking to this one other person.
Good luck!
I used to be like that in high school because I was so nervous that I was going to say something wrong, but it was when I started working at a summer camp and constantly talking in front of groups that it no longer bothered me. And I guess as a teacher that is a good thing!
I would go with the others and write out a few things, that you find interesting, or to add a comment to what someone else said just a few words to help.
It was one of the things we talked about a lot in my education classes because so many people hate speaking up in class. Also you know the stuff by the way of your journal so just believe in yourself!
I used to be like that in high school because I was so nervous that I was going to say something wrong, but it was when I started working at a summer camp and constantly talking in front of groups that it no longer bothered me. And I guess as a teacher that is a good thing!
I would go with the others and write out a few things, that you find interesting, or to add a comment to what someone else said just a few words to help.
It was one of the things we talked about a lot in my education classes because so many people hate speaking up in class. Also you know the stuff by the way of your journal so just believe in yourself!
I think failing you for lack of participation is rather harsh – but I do understand where the professors are coming from.
Talking in groups will be a necessary part of the job – especially when it comes to case reviews and presentations. Your ability to interpret and convey the symptoms/treatment plan/needs of the client are exactly what your co-workers/bosses will be judging you on. No one’s going to sit around and read treatment plans and clinical notes all day.
Get over the hump, and speak up! Everyone in that class is likely worried they’ll sound stupid – and hopefully one of ’em jumps into agree with your point of view! 🙂
I think failing you for lack of participation is rather harsh – but I do understand where the professors are coming from.
Talking in groups will be a necessary part of the job – especially when it comes to case reviews and presentations. Your ability to interpret and convey the symptoms/treatment plan/needs of the client are exactly what your co-workers/bosses will be judging you on. No one’s going to sit around and read treatment plans and clinical notes all day.
Get over the hump, and speak up! Everyone in that class is likely worried they’ll sound stupid – and hopefully one of ’em jumps into agree with your point of view! 🙂
Wow, that is crap (oh, hi! I just stumpled upon your blog). I’m very much an introvert, so I’ve been told the same thing before. It’s not like I don’t know the answers/have nothing to say; I just feel as if when I give the correct answer, I’m showing off. So I sit back and allow others to give the answers/start the discussions, and I go along in my head.
I think writing down discussion topics can be helpful in this case. I don’t see how it could hurt, at least. I would just try to speak up once or twice each class.. Hopefully that will help!
Wow, that is crap (oh, hi! I just stumpled upon your blog). I’m very much an introvert, so I’ve been told the same thing before. It’s not like I don’t know the answers/have nothing to say; I just feel as if when I give the correct answer, I’m showing off. So I sit back and allow others to give the answers/start the discussions, and I go along in my head.
I think writing down discussion topics can be helpful in this case. I don’t see how it could hurt, at least. I would just try to speak up once or twice each class.. Hopefully that will help!
(I deleted my comment above b/c I wanted to add another thought)
While I disagree with your professor’s lack of respect for different learning styles, I do think it’s a good idea to force yourself to get used to speaking in front of large groups. I’m sure that there will be times in your career when you’ll have to work as part of an interdisciplinary time or speak in front of a large grounp, and the more practice you have the better you’ll be.
I was quiet and shy during my first few semesters as an undergrad, but I made a point of speaking and it eventually came naturally.
You’re an intelligent person and I’m sure you have worthwhile things to contribute. Making a brief list or jotting down some notes in your text doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
Also, have you read Ben’s post today? He shared some really great advice related to this very thing!
(I deleted my comment above b/c I wanted to add another thought)
While I disagree with your professor’s lack of respect for different learning styles, I do think it’s a good idea to force yourself to get used to speaking in front of large groups. I’m sure that there will be times in your career when you’ll have to work as part of an interdisciplinary time or speak in front of a large grounp, and the more practice you have the better you’ll be.
I was quiet and shy during my first few semesters as an undergrad, but I made a point of speaking and it eventually came naturally.
You’re an intelligent person and I’m sure you have worthwhile things to contribute. Making a brief list or jotting down some notes in your text doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
Also, have you read Ben’s post today? He shared some really great advice related to this very thing!
wow, that seems a little harsh to me. there is one area of the class where you’re not doing as well as you could be, and they’re failing you? ouch.
on the positive side, if you’re doing well in your journals and small group, you obviously know what you’re talking about, so take from confidence from that. i know what you mean about talking in front of a large group. i don’t like doing that either.
good luck, you can do it!
wow, that seems a little harsh to me. there is one area of the class where you’re not doing as well as you could be, and they’re failing you? ouch.
on the positive side, if you’re doing well in your journals and small group, you obviously know what you’re talking about, so take from confidence from that. i know what you mean about talking in front of a large group. i don’t like doing that either.
good luck, you can do it!
I had something like that happen to me (“you write great journals but refuse to share with the class – why?”), and it really felt kind of demoralizing. I’m not comfortable sharing in large groups either, and since it was clear that I could do great work, I didn’t quite see why so much rested on the participation component. While I do understand the idea that these are skills that you will need in the future, it sends the message that one should talk in class because they are being graded heavily, rather than fostering a true discussion.
That being said, since this class is necessary for you to graduate, then you need to make it a point to add something to the discussion each class. I think the other comments about mapping out your points ahead of time are right on; get it out of the way early in class if possible so you don’t have to stress.
I had something like that happen to me (“you write great journals but refuse to share with the class – why?”), and it really felt kind of demoralizing. I’m not comfortable sharing in large groups either, and since it was clear that I could do great work, I didn’t quite see why so much rested on the participation component. While I do understand the idea that these are skills that you will need in the future, it sends the message that one should talk in class because they are being graded heavily, rather than fostering a true discussion.
That being said, since this class is necessary for you to graduate, then you need to make it a point to add something to the discussion each class. I think the other comments about mapping out your points ahead of time are right on; get it out of the way early in class if possible so you don’t have to stress.
That’s insane. I’ll be praying you can “talk”..I just can’t believe that is a problem.
That’s insane. I’ll be praying you can “talk”..I just can’t believe that is a problem.
That’s complete BS how the professor could fail you for not participating in the large class when you are doing well with everything else. That’s so unfair and uncalled for.
Are you friends with a lot of the people in the class? I know it was always easier for me when I felt comfortable with the rest of the class. I think the idea of writing down things you would like to discuss is a great idea. You can always start small, and the more comfortable you become, the more you can share.
Good luck!
That’s complete BS how the professor could fail you for not participating in the large class when you are doing well with everything else. That’s so unfair and uncalled for.
Are you friends with a lot of the people in the class? I know it was always easier for me when I felt comfortable with the rest of the class. I think the idea of writing down things you would like to discuss is a great idea. You can always start small, and the more comfortable you become, the more you can share.
Good luck!
Yes, I’ve been told that many times. I’ve even been called out in the middle of class! I don’t think there’s anyway around it but to force yourself to speak. It’s actually surprising how fast you get used to it. But, I often fall back into old habits, so I have to continue to force myself to speak up. Good luck. I know you’ll do it if this is what it takes to graduate.
Yes, I’ve been told that many times. I’ve even been called out in the middle of class! I don’t think there’s anyway around it but to force yourself to speak. It’s actually surprising how fast you get used to it. But, I often fall back into old habits, so I have to continue to force myself to speak up. Good luck. I know you’ll do it if this is what it takes to graduate.
oh wow that is some intense participation grading, sheesh. i’ve never really had a problem talking in class, but i don’t always make the smartest comments, haha. i think a list of topics or notes from your reading could definitely help you though to speak up some more. you can do it! woo!
oh wow that is some intense participation grading, sheesh. i’ve never really had a problem talking in class, but i don’t always make the smartest comments, haha. i think a list of topics or notes from your reading could definitely help you though to speak up some more. you can do it! woo!
This is outrageous in my opinion, and I’m in a similarly related field. I feel angry on your behalf.
This is outrageous in my opinion, and I’m in a similarly related field. I feel angry on your behalf.
oh this is brutal. i hate public speaking. i saved speech class in college for my last semester because i really didn’t think i could handle it. i had to do it in order to graduate. I SUCKED and almost failed the class. not everyone is a good public speaker, or a good speaker in classrooms or in small groups. but it sounds like you have to pony up. i wish you luck. i know it isn’t wise to tell you to drink or take anti-anxiety medicine before attending this class to loosen you up, but…….
oh this is brutal. i hate public speaking. i saved speech class in college for my last semester because i really didn’t think i could handle it. i had to do it in order to graduate. I SUCKED and almost failed the class. not everyone is a good public speaker, or a good speaker in classrooms or in small groups. but it sounds like you have to pony up. i wish you luck. i know it isn’t wise to tell you to drink or take anti-anxiety medicine before attending this class to loosen you up, but…….
In my last quarter at UC Irvine I started failing my clinical psych class for lack of participation. I was burnt out, tired, easily irritated and just wanted out. I essentially had to refocus on my end goal of exiting college and interim goal of passing class. I really reached downa and tried to think of why I majored in Clinical Psych and what my passion had been and that really got me re-motivated to not only participate but do really well! Good luck!
In my last quarter at UC Irvine I started failing my clinical psych class for lack of participation. I was burnt out, tired, easily irritated and just wanted out. I essentially had to refocus on my end goal of exiting college and interim goal of passing class. I really reached downa and tried to think of why I majored in Clinical Psych and what my passion had been and that really got me re-motivated to not only participate but do really well! Good luck!
unfortunately for me i’ve always been told i need to shut up in class.
unfortunately for me i’ve always been told i need to shut up in class.
Wow. What a craptastic situation.
I have been told I need to talk more in class… I worked on it. HARD. I found myself talking a lot on certain days and rarely on others. I purposely spoke up on days when the topics meant something to me, I had something of value to add, and next thing I knew, it wound up being a debate. Not sure if they will let you get away with talking only during some classes and not others, but that could be a starting point for you.
Good luck! You all know you can do it!
Wow. What a craptastic situation.
I have been told I need to talk more in class… I worked on it. HARD. I found myself talking a lot on certain days and rarely on others. I purposely spoke up on days when the topics meant something to me, I had something of value to add, and next thing I knew, it wound up being a debate. Not sure if they will let you get away with talking only during some classes and not others, but that could be a starting point for you.
Good luck! You all know you can do it!
oh man, do i hear ya on that. i actually just blogged about this. what i always found frustrating was that in large groups there are always people who feel the need to talk all the time and right away, whereas for me i would need to think more before answering. by the time I had something to say, we’d be onto the next topic. I think the prepared list is good if it’s absolutely necessary. Good luck!!
oh man, do i hear ya on that. i actually just blogged about this. what i always found frustrating was that in large groups there are always people who feel the need to talk all the time and right away, whereas for me i would need to think more before answering. by the time I had something to say, we’d be onto the next topic. I think the prepared list is good if it’s absolutely necessary. Good luck!!
i know exactly what you mean, hun. i too am much more comfortable expressing myself through written word (duh) or in a small group setting than in a large one. it’s not that i don’t get it or am not interested…i just don’t feel compelled to speak up in every discussion that takes place. i think it’s important for professors to acknowledge the discrepancies in their students personal learning preferences as well as their personalities. however, if they are forcing you to speak up more in order to pass and graduate then you have to come up with a way to do it that works with your personality. perhaps when you’re doing your assigned reading or homework you can highlight or jot down a couple questions related to the material or maybe some information you learned in another course to substantiate something you’re learning in this one. i always found it was easier to raise your hand (rather than be called on) that way you’re in control of what you’re forced to say in front of everyone. it always worked for me to just state the obvious about the text but reword it differently so it sounds like you’re making an astute observation about the text. plus it gets your “talking for the day” out of the way on your terms.
not sure if that made any sense but hopefully it helps some. good luck and just think of the finish line in may. it will all be over soon!! :]
i know exactly what you mean, hun. i too am much more comfortable expressing myself through written word (duh) or in a small group setting than in a large one. it’s not that i don’t get it or am not interested…i just don’t feel compelled to speak up in every discussion that takes place. i think it’s important for professors to acknowledge the discrepancies in their students personal learning preferences as well as their personalities. however, if they are forcing you to speak up more in order to pass and graduate then you have to come up with a way to do it that works with your personality. perhaps when you’re doing your assigned reading or homework you can highlight or jot down a couple questions related to the material or maybe some information you learned in another course to substantiate something you’re learning in this one. i always found it was easier to raise your hand (rather than be called on) that way you’re in control of what you’re forced to say in front of everyone. it always worked for me to just state the obvious about the text but reword it differently so it sounds like you’re making an astute observation about the text. plus it gets your “talking for the day” out of the way on your terms.
not sure if that made any sense but hopefully it helps some. good luck and just think of the finish line in may. it will all be over soon!! :]
I get really nervous in big groups and have a hard time speaking up. I think its ridiculous they would consider failing you just because you’ve been on the quieter side… I mean for your journals to be above average and still consider failing you, that just seems crazy!
My advice would be when you are on a topic you feel very confident in to make sure to speak up a lot. I guess that might be obvious advice but that was usually my game plan. Good luck!!! I’m sure you will be fine. 🙂
I get really nervous in big groups and have a hard time speaking up. I think its ridiculous they would consider failing you just because you’ve been on the quieter side… I mean for your journals to be above average and still consider failing you, that just seems crazy!
My advice would be when you are on a topic you feel very confident in to make sure to speak up a lot. I guess that might be obvious advice but that was usually my game plan. Good luck!!! I’m sure you will be fine. 🙂
HEy, many of those writing have valid points. You just have to get used to the larger groups. Try making the number you consider a small group larger? When talking, focus on a few of the people, you don’t have to look at everyone. And also remember that they are doing the same thing as you, you are one of many, not the only one participating. Various points of view are important when looking at problems and solutions and such, be a part of the solution. Something you find and talk about may be what is needed to make everything move on.
Practice makes perfect, you will have to talk to get past the jitters. Take the instructor’s comments as constructive criticism and crack the shell.
Good luck!!
HEy, many of those writing have valid points. You just have to get used to the larger groups. Try making the number you consider a small group larger? When talking, focus on a few of the people, you don’t have to look at everyone. And also remember that they are doing the same thing as you, you are one of many, not the only one participating. Various points of view are important when looking at problems and solutions and such, be a part of the solution. Something you find and talk about may be what is needed to make everything move on.
Practice makes perfect, you will have to talk to get past the jitters. Take the instructor’s comments as constructive criticism and crack the shell.
Good luck!!